Do you know about engine swaps like LS1?

"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes) 12/01/2013 at 20:43 • Filed to: None

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I want a LS1 in my 89 mustang I have been reading all I can I want to do a 5.3 truck motor if I cant find a wrecked camaro. It is my only car so I would need to drive it asap and cant have the car down for a month.

My question is what can I do to make sure the swap happens quick and painless. I will try to use as many factory parts as possible to keep costs down.

Popular Hot rodding did an article about a LS swap mustang coupe like mine and even used the camaro gauge cluster which seems to fit pretty well in the mustang dash.

Any tips advice links you could provide would be very helpful.

EDITED TO INCLUDE THIS.

here are my goals and random thoughts.

A 5.3 GM truck motor is miles ahead on a 5.0. A 5.0 made 250hp if you are lucky. A stock 5.3 in the least powerful version made 285hp. Adding a cam and headers to a stock 5.3 gained 96hp with a carb and carb manifold figure 10-15hp loss with fuel injection as I would like to run. They are way easy to work on. Plentiful and cheap. Many have been swapped into fox mustangs and it can be done with just motor mounts and 2010 camaro stock exhaust manifolds. Stand alone harnesses are easy to come by if I want to go that route.

Here is a link popular hot rodding built a very similar car under $10k and they used some rather expensive parts and more expensive engine. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

My goals with the car are as follows.

1. I want at least 12 sec flat 1/4 mile

2. I want it to handle well and stop well not just a drag car in other words.

3. I want it to be fun.

4. I want to eventually go to a t56 transmission

5. I want a 5.3 and a 4l60e using as many factory parts as possible to keep costs down.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 20:45

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I talked to a guy with a V8 Miata. His advice for V8 swaps was. . .

don't do it.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 20:46

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Get one with a complete wiring harness and computer.

my only advice

daender > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 20:46

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If you can't find the ECU, I heard MegaSquirt works well as a replacement.

10Speed > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 20:48

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don't turn a car you depend on into a project car...

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > YSI-what can brown do for you 12/01/2013 at 20:51

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V8 into a Miata is a bit different than V8 into a Mustang...

EL_ULY > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 20:53

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Mycarneverruns87 will reply shorty, he has plenty of experience.He is doing a LT1 swap as I type on a clean Fox coupe.

Frank Grimes > EL_ULY 12/01/2013 at 20:56

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Now way! I like those engines.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 20:57

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Why an ls1? Every thing these days is ls swapped. Keep the engine in the ford family. You can find wrecked newer mustangs with 5.0 engines that are super easy to swap into fox bodies

YSI-what can brown do for you > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 12/01/2013 at 20:58

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Well it is a tight squeeze, but even if it wasn't you got a lot of wiring to do, the you have to get the ECU to work with the engine(this was the problem a bug with an EJ was having at Autocross). Then you have to make sure the engine hooks up to the transmission. . .

911e46z06 > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 20:59

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No such thing as a quick and painless engine swap.

That said, you should totally just buy a $200 car and lay the 'stang up for a few weeks while you do it properly. Also, sacrilege. I love it.

hollanddjw 1 > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 21:00

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Best of luck.

lonestranger > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 12/01/2013 at 21:03

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How so? This isn't a Ford small block we're talking about. He'll still have to deal with just as much wiring, cooling, mounting, and driveline incompatibilities than if it were going into a car that didn't originally have a V8.

BJohnson11 > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 21:09

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Get a 5.3 out of a truck. Are you looking to swap in a manual trans (and if so, does the stang already have a manual?). I'd say if youre looking to do the quickest swap, your best bet would be to go to a junkyard and get a complete pullout 5.3 vortec with the 4L60E trans with wiring harness and all that. Then, I'm sure there are companies that make motor mounts to do the swap. After that, it'd be as simple as pulling the old motor and trans, dropping the new ones in, getting the driveshaft cut to length, and then some monkeying with the fuel system to get everything delivering fuel properly.

But I strongly, s trongly recommend getting a complete pull out motor and trans. And coming from experience, if the car isn't already manual equipped, swapping in a manual trans is a headache and a half.

Otherwise, sounds like a sweet project! I have an affinity towards the 5.3s especially for a smaller vehicle because you can get a complete engine and trans with harness for around $1000 if you shop right, vs $2000 for an engine alone if you go the 5.7 route. Use that extra cash to throw a cam, intake, and tune at the 5.3 and you have a nice, very driveable 325 horse motor that will get 20+ mpg on the freeway. What's not to love?

80CobraKid > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 21:12

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My advise: buy a used EFI windsor, save yourself the trouble. honestly, It's a drop-in swap, and with a top-end kit, will make the same horsepower. Plus, you'll gain respect at car shows. With an LS1 swap, not only will Mustang guys hate you for putting a chevy motor in a Ford, let alone a Mustang, Chevy guys will never respect you for "wasting" an LS1 in a Mustang. A Lima+Auto to Windsor+Manual is such an easier swap.

More Power!!and also some brakes. > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 12/01/2013 at 21:16

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Why not LS1? It is a great engine that will be a pretty simple swap and have an unparalleled aftermarket. Yes, the Ford engines are good and have a decent aftermarket as well, too each his own.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > lonestranger 12/01/2013 at 21:25

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And he'll have to putz with all of that stuff if he does a turbo 6, V10, modular Ford... At least he'll have room to work with and an already adequately sturdy chassis. People drop LS engines into anything and everything. I wouldn't rule it out cause one guy had a hard time.

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > 80CobraKid 12/01/2013 at 21:26

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That was my first thought too. But if you turbo up your LS in your Mustang like the picture Frank Grimes used, and you go run 8.3's at 166 mph, that might set the haters back a bit.

LS Mustang

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > YSI-what can brown do for you 12/01/2013 at 21:26

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But like I said to the other guy in this thread, he's going to have to deal with that with any engine swap. Don't give up cause one guy tries to scare you away from it.

mycarneverruns87 > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 21:31

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The LS swap is well documented but even if you have every nut/bolt/screw/rivet to do the swap it will take far longer than 1 month to do....FAR LONGER. Even if you carb the car, the wiring for everything else will take a long time. You need to decide what goals you have for your car as far as budget/power/weight/and the way it gets the job done. That will give you a better idea what direction to head. LS swaps are NOT cheap and are NOT easy. Get a plan and stick to it. www.LS1tech.com and www.hybrid-pony.com are some great forums to find info on. I have my build posted in the later.

I know this isn't much help but let us know what your goals are and you will probably get some better help.

mycarneverruns87 > EL_ULY 12/01/2013 at 21:32

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Not quite LT1 swap but a 5.3 LS. LM7 by GM lingo....PITA by my lingo lol

mycarneverruns87 > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 12/01/2013 at 21:38

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Cost is a HUGE factor. It would cost around $10k to swap a new Coyote into my car. Engine, ECM, K-member, headers, accessory adapters, fuel system, clutch, bellhousing, driveshaft, ect. I love the new 5.0s but they haven't been out long enough to be cheap yet. They are also not as easy to work on as any LS is. Not to be mean but I am going to assume you have never worked on an LS engine...think LEGOS. I am a diehard Ford fan and that simple fact helped me make my decision.

XJDano > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 21:38

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I don't know anything about wiring, but I did rip out the old / bad wire harness and bought another off ebay for my 84 GTI, So I will have to learn something about it sometime.

80CobraKid > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 12/01/2013 at 21:53

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Yes, I'm sure if you spent the money I'm sure that guy did. If it's just a car he likes to enjoy on the weekends, or a daily driver, drag times don't mean much. With an LS swap, you must buy either some funky ass motor mounts, or a whole new k-member (~$650) plus all the peripherals. A Windsor is essentially new motor mounts, and new springs, plus the wiring harness plus the ECU (the harness can be bought brand new) and then the ECU can be bought easily, along with a tuned chip.

SPNKiX > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 21:59

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When I first read, I was all: DO IT.

Then I read this is your DD and I was all: DON'T DO IT.

You will nickle and dime yourself into insanity. Not worth the trouble. Just do something awesome to what you have. The Ford v8 can take whatever your imagination can throw at it.

190e30-Now with COSWORTH > Frank Grimes 12/01/2013 at 22:24

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A second a big no-no on engine swaps. Don't get me wrong, I love them so much (I even almost started a weekly series on weird engine-swapped cars for sale around the US) but it's a bad idea. Cars, even the worst and most unreliable, come out of the factory with thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of miles of testing to get them right and ensure everything is fit for daily use. Mess with that formula, and there's a great potential of issues down the road, sometimes minor and sometimes massive, but issues nonetheless.

YSI-what can brown do for you > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 12/01/2013 at 22:57

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I am not saying it is impossible, I have dreams of swaps as well, a 240sx with a RB26DETT comes to mind. It is just that a engine swap(particularly from a different manufacturer) for a DD is a bad idea. It isn't really a weekend project.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > mycarneverruns87 12/01/2013 at 23:57

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No i have worked on them plenty. Is there a 302 in the mustang currently? It is very easy to make 302's quick without too much money.

I have installed many engines and even though im sure there are kits to make the ls swap easy its not going to be fast or fun. Wiring cars suck. I replaced a whole wiring harness with my friend in his 77 bronco and that was a pain in the ass. And that was an exact replica to the original.

To swap an engine with a totally new wiring and systems will take lots of time and money. Especially if you have to fabricate any parts.

And why would you defile a Ford with government motors? :)

Philbert/Phartnagle > Frank Grimes 12/02/2013 at 03:24

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Save the effort, wiring & tuning hacks and the money, just swap in a 351W.

It's mostly a bolt in swap and you can get just as much power out of them as you can the LS1.

mycarneverruns87 > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 12/02/2013 at 10:40

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As far as the OPs car having a 5.0 I do not know. Mine is an original 2.3 car but I have built a few 5.0s and worked on too many to count. They take well to mods, they are pretty durable, they always sound great, and are cheap.....but I am bored with them and they get very very expensive to be able to make the power I want. Anything past 500 rwhp for a SBF is just a grenade waiting to explode. Yes, I know there are of bunch of guys over that mark but they usually don't last long. I want to have something different and before you say EVERYONE is LS swapping EVERYTHING and I am not being different..... bolt on 5.0 cars out number LS swaps by a long shot. 5.0 cars are pretty well cookie cutter across the masses. Nothing wrong with it, I just want something different. I am building the car I want with 21st century technology to boot.

Frank Grimes > mycarneverruns87 12/02/2013 at 18:04

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My goals are

1. to get rid of the 4 cylinder ASAP.

2. run low twelves in the 1/4

3. do it with a cheap junkyard 5.3 and 4l60e and eventually swap to a t56 I will be using the factory computer wiring harness possibly have this modded. I would have a lot of fun with just a stock 5.3 but being able to add headers and a cam and pick up 100hp will be nice.

mycarneverruns87 > Frank Grimes 12/02/2013 at 18:20

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Ok, those are good goals for sure..especially #1 lol. Some advise though, no matter how easy some people say the swap is...it isn't true. It is a lot of work to do it right. It takes time. The big parts are indeed easy but the small conversion stuff like fittings, hoses, odd bolts, wiring, fuel fittings, exhaust, ect is the killer. Almost nothing will be simply drop in. All the builds I see are only suposeto take a few months but end up taking two years... and these guys have done their homework. The project can rapidly begin to snowball like you have never believed! It can be very rewarding in the end though. A "budget" swap will likely cost you $2,500 minimum with all nuts and bolts included. The $1500 swaps only have the big parts added up.

If you want a simple combo to run low 12s, I would simply do a 302 with GT40 iron heads and matching intake...then spray it. You should check out my post and build from earlier today to help you get an idea of what all is involved. Good luck!

Frank Grimes > mycarneverruns87 12/02/2013 at 18:43

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Yes but how much time are these people putting into the cars each day? Are they switching parts as the build goes on and keep changing things?

There is no reason a engine swap even a somewhat complicated one should take two years that is just ridiculous.

I am pretty much against the 302 I dont want iron heads and iron block that is just too much weight for me I want to keep the car light as possible.

mycarneverruns87 > Frank Grimes 12/02/2013 at 20:42

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Well most do switch a lot of parts throughout the builds which adds time. You are right but it is very easy to fall into that trap. For example, I am on my 3rd oil pan to try to make the engine fit how I want. It just isn't easy.

The big thing you will notice is that many will start with a goal for an NA 5.3, then sell it for a 6.0, then build that, then sell the 6.0 for an aluminum 6.2, build that, install it, then they want a turbo all the sudden and the build is two years and $25,000 lol.

If you are set on an LS swap then I would highly recommend a complete pullout with transmission LS1/T56/4L60E. All aluminum, 325 HP, simple, proven, and most importantly...COMPLETE. I wish I would have done this. Just bite the bullet and spend the $1500-$2500 for one. You could send the engine harness off to be converted to standalone by a professional. This is money and time well spent.

Get an AJE K-member and mounts. Many use this and it is most common. Just remember, if you just swap the k-member and use factory suspension you will have stock brakes intended for an 80HP 4 cylinder!

To save money, Hedman has released some mid-length headers for LS in Fox conversions.

You will need a new steering shaft (flaming river)

You will need a 255LPH in tank fuel pump to keep it simple and some AN fittings and -6/-8 line to the rail. The corvette/S10 fuel filter/regulator combo is easy and proven.

An 8.8 inch rear end is a must eventually as the 7.5 will not hold the abuse. You can get the car running and driving no problem with the 7.5 but keep it in mind.

Wiring is needed for the gauges, I don't really like the F-body cluster conversion as it looks tacky IMO. That part is your call.

The list above will not be the cheapest but will likely be the easiest and fastest. Spend money in the right places and do the job right.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > mycarneverruns87 12/02/2013 at 21:39

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Makes sense. I just have never been a huge fan of ls engines. Don't get me wrong they are great engines to make power reliably with, there just not my style. If it was me doing an engine swap into a fox and i could not use a ford engine, i would have to go with a 1jz or 2jz.

Frank Grimes > mycarneverruns87 12/02/2013 at 23:24

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The plan you layout is basically what I would like to do. I realize I having never done this swap before there is a lot I dont know but of all the conversions I have seen it doesnt seem that difficult. The wiring issues are the most intimidating to me but a standalone harness supposedly only requires five wires or so to be wired up for the motor to run.

My mustang is a running driving car with everything working so it seems that would make things less complicated.

Wouldn't swapping a 5.0 in be just as much work as going with an LS?

I am really set on a 5.3 and think I would be really happy with that. I dont want a drag monster break records or even care if I have the fastest car around I just want a good heap of power to make the car much more fun so going to 6.0 or turbo mid swap I just wouldnt do it.

mycarneverruns87 > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 12/03/2013 at 00:32

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Hey, we are all different and that is what makes the world go round'! I have seen a couple 2j swapped Mustangs and they are simply to die for, dat supra sound plus Mustang!? Where do I sign?

mycarneverruns87 > Frank Grimes 12/03/2013 at 00:43

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The 5.0 swap is only easier because the car was built with that option so all parts are out there that are literally drop in. A 5.0 harness is going to fit perfect because they were designed to do so. The work is the same though.

My advice would be to find a cheap beater to daily while your Mustang is down. Then you won't be in a time crunch. I can PROMISE that you will not make a 1 month time limit. I am an optimist but also a realist lol.

A 5.3 will be fun and is a great starting point for mods as you know. That is what route I have taken.

Jim > Frank Grimes 12/15/2013 at 13:05

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This will give you an idea of what is involved.

Roger > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 06/25/2014 at 20:22

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Because they are affordable ..VERY cheap! And it doesn't matter what brand it is as long as its fast. My Dodge has a Cummins diesel in it but Im happy with it! I love Mustangs but the LS1 fits like a glove in the engine bay and that part makes working on it nice. Have you ever seen how much room is left in the Coyote conversions. Get ready to change the brake booster and reconfigure the steering shaft and the sway bar ect…I think you get my point. And 10k woundnt cover the cost..Ive got that in my LS1 conversion. Theres a few write ups and from what iv seen your looking at more like 15-20k to do it right with a new 5.0 conversion. Motors aren't readily available used and those that are aren't cheap. And tuning isn't as easy .2013 and up ECMs are supposed to be limited on tuning .. Don't know that for sure thats just what I was told while getting a car tuned at Dallas Mustangs. The LS1 motors have it nailed on the ignition system. A lot people just go with mail order tunes.Tuners have had almost 20 years to fool with theses motors and they know what they like. If it makes you feel better come by my house and put a ford emblem on my intake :)